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Current Game Mechanic Exploit -10 sec pirates plundering in empire.

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Jmanis Catharg Caldari Dusk Blade	Posted - 2008.12.01 20:50:00 - [1] Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 01/12/2008 20:51:19 Go kill them? Sorry, this doesn't sound like an exploit to me really. 1. CONCORD don't Pod. 2. The ORCA pilot isn't an outlaw. 3. They jump into a ship, it takes a moment for CONCORD to arrive. As long as their ship is blown up by CONCORD it's not an exploit, regardless of what they do before this happens. They're -10 ffs. Why didn't you fit a couple guns on your covops and kill their pods at the orca??? (edit: or better yet, bookmark their Orca and fly back in a fit-out battleship and really wreck some havoc on the -10s --- Originally by: CCP Mitnal I went to the forums for special powers and all I got was a dancing padlock and a banhammer.
Jmanis Catharg Caldari Dusk Blade	Posted - 2008.12.01 20:54:00 - [2] I'll agree this is just yet another point for the "Remove insurance on CONCORD-related deaths" though. --- Originally by: CCP Mitnal I went to the forums for special powers and all I got was a dancing padlock and a banhammer.
Jmanis Catharg Caldari Dusk Blade	Posted - 2008.12.02 21:47:00 - [3] I still don't get after following the last 10 pages without comment (last time something like this, the "FW Navies not engaging wartargets because of an elaborate neutral-remote-repping tactic" issue came up, I argued it was at least a broken mechanic because it meant FW navies were not attacking WTs as they were supposed to) by how people can fuss about this so much. This is nothing more than a typical suicide gank with the exception they are doing it under fire from Navy Police. It's not an exploit to avoid the Faction navies provided you're under fire from them. It is an exploit to avoid being killed by CONCORD. Neither are happening here. Would it make you more comfortable if they loaded up into their ships from a station instead? Because you could do exactly the same thing from a station. --- Originally by: CCP Mitnal I went to the forums for special powers and all I got was a dancing padlock and a banhammer.
Jmanis Catharg Caldari Dusk Blade	Posted - 2008.12.02 22:25:00 - [4] Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 02/12/2008 22:27:18 Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 02/12/2008 22:26:28 Quote: It is however an exploit for a -10 to easily bypass all the game mechnics set up to make this sort of suicide gank very difficult under normal curcumstances. I hardly think it bypasses any mechanics, and no easier than what you could already do. So,, I'm in Caldari Militia docked in a Gallente station in Gallente Highsec. I undock in a suicide gank-prepped ship and undock. Just before warping to my target (some neutral not involved in FW), the Gallente navy and turrets start engaging me. I arrive at my target. Lock, engage, pop, then CONCORD pastes my ass. *Versus:* So,, I'm a -10 docked in a station in Highsec. I undock in a suicide gank-prepped ship and undock. Just before warping to my target, the Navy and turrets start engaging me. I arrive at my target. Lock, engage, pop, then CONCORD pastes my ass. Now **, lets roll an ORCA into this. I'm in Caldari Militia in my pod in Gallente Highsec at a safespot with an Orca. I'm in my pod so Gallente don't fire on me. They're there, but they don't fire on me. Orca spits out a ship, I jump in. Gallente navy open up, but I manage to warp away to a belt, gank a neutral, then CONCORD arrives and kills me. Versus I'm a -10 in my pod in Highsec at a safespot with an Orca. I'm in my pod so the Navy don't fire on me. They're there, but they don't fire on me. Orca spits out a ship, I jump in. Navy open up, but I manage to warp away to a belt, gank a neutral, then CONCORD arrives and kills me. Being in Factional Warfare makes you KOS to opposing navies, low security status means your KOS to all faction navies, with the added caveat that all highsec pilots can kill you, versus just those in the opposing NPC corporation. Because there's two fundamental mechanics at work here. 1) Avoiding (you're under fire, you're just not engaging them) the Navy NPCs (Not an exploit) 2) Having a neutral-sec PC ferrying ships to highsec (Not an exploit either). (edit: made it less confrontational after reading your full post ) --- Originally by:** CCP Mitnal I went to the forums for special powers and all I got was a dancing padlock and a banhammer.
Jmanis Catharg Caldari Dusk Blade	Posted - 2008.12.03 00:11:00 - [5] Originally by: Zeba Stuff While I won't disagree with what you put down there, it sounds like a fair amount of effort for the end result, and certainly not going to plague anyone *except the ones who refuse to budge from the hubs* cough cough. All in all a fairly well thought out and not-trivial tactic very easily counterable by one thing: Moving to a new system. I wish 0.0 PvP could be countered just by doing that. --- Originally by: CCP Mitnal I went to the forums for special powers and all I got was a dancing padlock and a banhammer.
Jmanis Catharg Caldari Dusk Blade	Posted - 2008.12.03 00:34:00 - [6] Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 03/12/2008 00:35:31 Quote: Too bad. Looks like the pirates will end up screwing your use of it. Don't shoot the messenger. We both know CCP is likely to turn the ship maintence bay into a Roq clone. It's easy to do and "addresses the issue". Except one of the niche roles CCP specifically designed the ORCA for was to transport rigged ships about. So too bad. Quote: The broken mechanic that needs fixed is the insurance system which allows suicide ganking with little to no cost to the ganker. This is all I believe needs to happen. Remove insurance for CONCORD-related deaths. --- Originally by: CCP Mitnal I went to the forums for special powers and all I got was a dancing padlock and a banhammer.
Jmanis Catharg Caldari Dusk Blade	Posted - 2008.12.03 00:37:00 - [7] Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 03/12/2008 00:38:33 Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 03/12/2008 00:37:45 Quote: Until someone thought out the box. Then it'll be redesigned. If they do, they'd better give it compression, otherwise it really is a "**, meet bull" ship. But really, why remove this from the orca? It's no different than me peppering a systems stations with suicide ships using a neutral-sec alt, jumping around whatever ones I want to take and going out to kill stuff. If the ORCA doesn't do it, the stations will do just fine. Or better yet, a highsec corp POS. Dump ships inside the bubble by a neutral, -10 boards them, same same. Going to redesign POS now? --- Originally by:** CCP Mitnal I went to the forums for special powers and all I got was a dancing padlock and a banhammer.
Jmanis Catharg Caldari Dusk Blade	Posted - 2008.12.03 23:25:00 - [8] Originally by: Nicholai Pestot Been doing this for years with an alt that ejects from its ship at a safe spot. [h]Orca makes no difference.[/h] This. It's not an exploit. Get over it. --- Originally by: CCP Mitnal I went to the forums for special powers and all I got was a dancing padlock and a banhammer.
Jmanis Catharg Caldari Dusk Blade	Posted - 2008.12.04 01:46:00 - [9] Quote: Losing your T1 fit ship is not a penalty at all because of insurance. Sec penalty is no penalty at all because your sec rating doesn't go down. Which is why this tactic is completely valid, but, as I've said for several months now, insurance should not be paid out on CONCORD-related deaths. There will still be reward for killing a ship hauling lots of cargo, you'll still be able to sacrifice 5 gank-destroyers to pop a highsec mining boat as a one-for-one trade. Suicide ganking, while finding the right target takes some skill, is a very no-skill thing as far as the lock, fire, destroy, neut loots. As such the entire concept should revolve around sacrificing your isk to destroy someone elses. Currently, insurance breaks that. --- Originally by: CCP Mitnal I went to the forums for special powers and all I got was a dancing padlock and a banhammer.
Jmanis Catharg Caldari Dusk Blade	Posted - 2008.12.08 02:56:00 - [10] Quote: So what your saying is you dont feel that A ganker losing their ship is a punishment? It'd be punishment if that loss was anymore than the pity 5 million credits a suicide BS costs. I have no trouble with the tactic, they just have to remove insurance for CONCORD related deaths. People who think suiciding is a loss are only kidding themselves, unless they're flying a T2 Ship with full T2 fits. My indy alt could keep me well supplied with near zero-loss suicide ships. --- Originally by: CCP Mitnal I went to the forums for special powers and all I got was a dancing padlock and a banhammer.

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